121: Creating a Life Bigger Than Grief with Melissa Hull

I sit down with grief educator and author Melissa Hull, who shares the unimaginable story of losing her 4-year-old son, Drew, in a tragic accident. Melissa takes us back to that devastating day and opens up about the shame, guilt, and heartbreak that followed. Through her story, she shows us how grief can become a catalyst for growth, and how one letter from a stranger changed the course of her life.

Melissa also shares the heartbreaking journey through multiple pregnancy losses, her struggle to believe in herself as a mother again, and how she rebuilt her life, her identity, and her relationship with grief. She’s now helping others do the same through her books, her voice, and her mission to show that healing doesn’t mean forgetting. This episode is full of truth, tenderness, and hope for any mom navigating life after loss.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

• The morning of Drew’s accident and how it changed everything
• Living with overwhelming guilt, shame, and self-blame
• The unexpected letter that saved Melissa’s life
• Her heartbreaking journey through IVF and pregnancy loss
• Why she believed she didn’t deserve happiness
• The moment she decided to see herself with compassion
• Learning how to talk to herself like someone she loved
• How writing helped her process and heal
• What post-traumatic growth really looks like
• Rebuilding her identity and relationship with grief
• Finding friendship again with her ex-husband
• Why she doesn’t believe in apologizing for honoring your child
• The message she wants every grieving mom to hear

Resources Mentioned:

• Melissa's Website: https://melissahull.com
• Her book: "Dear Drew: Creating a Life Bigger Than Grief"
• Follow her on Instagram at: @melissa_hull_

Download my FREE "Guilt and Grief Release Journal" at navigatingbabyloss.com/journal

WHERE TO FIND AND FOLLOW ME!

• Website-  https://www.jennifersenn.com
• Tik Tok-https://www.tiktok.com/@navigatingbabyloss
• Instagram-https://www.instagram.com/navigatingbabyloss/
• You Tube-https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz-2MCEY5PRiF6p6VB_2lxA

Transcript

 today I have the honor of being able to speak with Melissa Hall. Melissa is no stranger to child loss. she's had her own stumble into her motherhood journey. welcome, Melissa. I'm so grateful that you're here to share all of your experiences with my listeners and to share about your mission and what you are doing in the world of helping grieving moms, So thank you for the introduction and for the welcome. I'm excited to be here today and to share, my story and my viewpoint on. What grief can ultimately become in our lives. to begin with, I should probably start at the beginning. back in May, 2000, May 19th specifically, it was a morning, like every other morning.

I was a young mother of two little boys that were 15 months apart. Drew was four and a half, and his younger brother Devin was three. it was an early morning. Drew used to get up so early that we had a rule he couldn't wake me until the sun was in the sky.

this particular morning, in Arizona where I lived, it was May, so the sun was up early. It was up at like five 30 in the morning. So he comes. Bursting into the room. Mama, The sun is up. It is time to get up and get me breakfast I'm hungry.

And then he said, I want Rocky Road ice cream. And I said, no, no. Rocky Road Ice cream. so we settled on beef ravioli's because he just had a very odd palate, this child would eat the most interesting things. But on this particular morning, beef ravioli seemed pretty reasonable. I was exhausted. Devin, my 3-year-old has had asthma as an infant, and so I had been up since Wednesday evening doing these breathing treatments at home, trying to avoid having to take him into the emergency room.

Which would've been a handful because my husband was away on business and I would've had to take both of my boys. Drew just wasn't the kind of child that sat quietly, on this particular morning, he woke up early. We got breakfast. I said, sweetheart, I need to go back and check on Devin.

I left him there with crayons and paper. He is watching Thomas the tank engine. I said, sweetheart, I'm gonna go check on Devon. I'll be right back. he said, okay, mama. I go back into my bedroom and Devon is wheezing he's not quite in a deep sleep, but he's exhausted.

So I kind of lay on my side next to him and start patting his back. And before I realize it, I must have inadvertently fallen asleep. when I woke up, it was probably closer to seven 15 or seven 30 in the morning. And I instantly knew that I needed to find Drew, because I didn't intend to fall asleep.

I didn't intend to leave him, there for that long. I didn't know how long I had been asleep, so I went instantly to go look for my son. he wasn't where I left him. His crayons and his paper were still there with his little drawings. His ravioli were eaten. and so I went into his bedroom.

I just began to look for him

that our sliding glass door was open about an inch and notice it before. So I thought, okay, he's outside. So as I go outside with this. Hope that he's just outside playing. I couldn't find him, and this is when the panic really sets in. 

we had outside dogs and we live in a very rural kind of agricultural setting, so I just started to look for him and call out for him. And our outside dog started running toward the house, so they weren't in the yard. that's when the realization that he could have made his way towards a very large irrigation canal started to set in.

And as I looked at my dogs running towards me, two of them were wet. I knew, they were by the canal. And then I looked down in the, in the ground and, and at some point. It's dirt. So you can see his footprints leading away from the house and towards this irrigation canal. I ran to the irrigation canal where it was evident that he had fallen in and fell to my knees instinctively begging God a gentleman in a truck drives by and I beg him to call the authorities.

I explain I have a sick baby at home. please call the authorities. I'm gonna go grab my son and continue to look for Drew. within 10 minutes, my house is, filled with police sheriff fire department, family and friends.

The word spread so quickly. I was at home when all of these people were out there looking for Drew. about five hours after this situation began, my husband was away on business. It took him about two and a half hours to get home. about five hours into the search a gentleman approached my father.

And then my father came and sat down next to me and he said, miss, I'm so sorry, but they found him and he's gone. And my life was never the same. It was just never the same. I cannot tell you how much I struggled with the guilt of falling asleep that morning. The shame of feeling like I failed as a mother.

Feeling very unworthy it was almost like something in me shifted where I didn't trust myself as a mother anymore. I didn't trust myself to not make a mistake that would cost me the life of my remaining child. my journey with grief started at a very low point because I felt absolutely responsible for his accident.

unfortunately for me, that sentiment was felt inside my family. there were questions like, what were you thinking? how did you not make sure the door was closed or locked? it was locked, but drew. You know, he's a four and a half little boy, and he paid attention to everything.

And this was, he unlocked the door. I didn't have a pool, I didn't have, you know, I didn't have any obvious dangers, around my home or immediately outside of it. So locking the door with a normal lock seemed reasonable. from there, my life took many different turns.

But the one thing that I knew that I wanted to do at some point, and it took time because my marriage really did go through some real struggles after the accident, we separated for about a year, a month after Drew was buried. I've never felt more alone in my life. I've never felt a rock bottom so deep as that particular time in my life.

I felt the weight of this grief and the weight of this shame was this disqualifier of a good life. I would never have a good life. I would always be struggling. I would always be heartbroken. I would always be in this deep pit of despair and no one could convince me otherwise. and there were lots of people with so many encouraging words and loving support.

and I appreciated everything that they were saying. And I wanted so much for their words to make a difference. And they didn't. I just couldn't believe that this was God's plan or that, I would be okay or that time would heal this wound. I was in a very bad place and I happened to, be home alone, and this was the very first night that Joey picked up Devin to stay with him at his new home while we were separated.

And I was alone with myself and my home where the accident happened. And I remember thinking, I can't do this. I can't go on, I just cannot. Manage this pain. I don't see a pathway where I will ever be worthy of being Devon's mother. I lost his brother. I was in a very bad place mentally. And on this particular night, I actually considered ending my life and not continuing because the pain was so immense.

It was just so immense. it clouded my thinking so profoundly that that became a viable option for me. And then I call this a miracle. there was a letter on my coffee table that I had not seen. It was mixed in with a bunch of condolence cards. I didn't open them because I just couldn't take on any more of the condolences.

I just needed a minute. Away from that, I was already feeling so heavy. and as much as I appreciated them, it just added weight. I can't really explain why, but it was like another person saying, I'm sorry for your loss. And it felt to me like they were saying, I'm sorry that you fell asleep and you and your son passed away.

That was the shift, the narrative. they weren't saying that, but I wasn't interpreting it that way. this letter, was in a white, business sized envelope and it just said to the mother of Drew Gallimore. I had no idea what this was. it turned out to be a letter from a mother, who, her name is Theresa.

And, and I don't know why she only listed her first name and no contact information. this woman wrote me a letter and said that she had heard about the accident and wanted to reach out because. She too, had lost her daughter at six. She was six years old. and she said, I left my keys in the house and I left her standing by the car.

I ran in and while it took for me to run inside to grab my keys and come back, she ran into the road and was struck by a car that was passing by. she had lost her daughter in that moment. And she said, I want you to, you know, I, I, I am sure that you're going through a series of I should have done this, or, why didn't I do that?

Or, what was I thinking? And she said, I'm sure that the narrative to blame yourself is really strong. And she said, I wanna encourage you to not do that, but to recognize that you are a loving mother, doing your best to love both of your children and to be a good mother just like you tried the day before.

the day of the accident, there was nothing different. She said, join happiness. Feel like they are foreign, that, that they'll never be a part of your normal again. she encouraged me to challenge that thinking. She encouraged me to believe that if I chose to fight happiness and joy, and I really chose to pursue that, that it would be their waiting for me, but that it would be a journey and an intentional choice.

For whatever reason, her words, and I think it had everything to do with, it felt like she really understood the shame and the guilt and the blame component of what I was struggling with. she spoke to me honestly, but with a love and compassion that I needed in that moment that changed my ability to have a momentary compassion for myself.

that little bit of hope translated into what has become the greatest transformation of my life. it all started with a letter from a perfect stranger, a woman I've never met. her letter changed my thinking and saved my life. So that is what happened.

after Drew's accident, I guess it was about a year after his accident, we decided that we wanted to try to have another baby. at this point we were done having children. my husband when I married him had two boys, so we had a total of four boys. he had made the decision to have a vasectomy.

we pursued in vitro fertilization. I was a perfect candidate according to the doctors I was under, you know, under, I was 30 at the time, very healthy. I'd already had two pregnancies, and no miscarriages prior. And so I began the, the, you know, the invitro fertilization process.

And it was so hard. It was such a journey. my body rejected a lot of the medications I had. I would get huge welts, on my hips. that just, they burned, they itched. It was, it was so uncomfortable. And it turned out I was allergic to the oil the medication was, delivered in.

So I had to have things compounded specifically for me I went through. Eight rounds of egg retrievals. And nine rounds of transfers and I was pregnant four times.

I lost each pregnancy, between the first three, around the 12 week mark. But then we had a successful pregnancy. We thought it was into my second trimester. I felt like, okay, this is going to work. And then my body went into spontaneous labor and I ended up losing.

a little boy at 22 weeks. that coupled with all of the other experiences in losing Drew and the guilt and shame I felt around his death, felt like the confirmation that I was being punished for that mistake I made and that I was never going to be a mother, not like science couldn't help me.

You know, medicine couldn't help me. and so I really struggled with making sense of why this was happening and the series of losses left me in a really dark place. then I remembered the letter. I went back and reread the letter. thankfully, I kept it in one of my journals and that's one of the things I've always done.

I've always written letters. I wrote letters to Drew for the first year that he was gone. I started when I was a young girl. I was given a journal at the age of eight and I just kept writing. as I went through this experience, I knew that I had a lot to say about this.

I knew that I had a lot to process and I really started to look for ways to. Take all of this emotion these feelings and these thoughts and re-channel them or at least challenge my thinking beyond what, that default narrative was that, this was my fault.

and that this was evidence that I'm not supposed to have anymore children and really challenged myself to, to think differently. And it had everything to do with that letter because I realized that I was creating my own prison of pain. I was allowing everything about my life to filter through only one narrative.

And I never challenged it, at least not long enough for it to become a lasting, shift or difference until after I lost. my pregnancy, at 22 weeks I was done with IVF. I couldn't do that anymore. I just emotionally couldn't manage it. And, my husband made the decision to have a vasectomy reversal, which, you know, God bless him, that's a lot to go through.

It was within, I think, six months of that that we conceived, our daughter Pope, who was born healthy and happy, and is now 21. I have been navigating loss for quite some time, and so I call myself, fluent in the language of grief and fluent in the language of bereavement.

And I refer to it as a language because I do think that it is a different way of being and speaking and being present in the world That only comes through. The experience of profound loss? I don't know that I would be the woman that I am today without these experiences, and I don't view the losses as only bad or only sad.

I see them and I see my time with Drew as one of the greatest gifts of my life. I see the challenge of arriving at that statement. I've lived that journey. but it's a journey that I know is something that every person can grow with and we can move forward bringing our love for our children.

the ones that we had the blessing to spend time with and raise, and others that we carried and lost, I have come to a place in my life where I can honestly say as crazy as it might sound to someone today, that I'm grateful for it all. I'm grateful for it all. I have a blessed life even inside of tremendous tragedy and significant loss.

My life has not been limited to grief. It has not been limited to only pain, and it has everything to do with my choice to sit with my grief and learn from it, and let it become a teacher and not a punishment. When it was a punishment, there was no trajectory. There was no getting past it or moving outside of it.

But the minute I allowed it to become this teacher, this expansive calling. Of my consciousness forward to look and experience grief from a different perspective. That is when I really started to find out that I had this ability to learn and grow from pain. it's called post-traumatic growth, but post-traumatic growth is one thing.

But to embody that growth and to live from that state of empowered belief and, positive thinking, and I'm not talking about toxic positivity where you just smile and say, oh, it's all good. No, I'm talking about the kind of positive mindset that allows for the possibility of life to still be good, for it to be meaningful and fulfillment and driven with purpose that brings joy, that brings fulfillment, that brings, you know, 

Peace to your heart. That's what I'm talking about. And so I just pursued that path and that became my default line of thinking now that's not to say that I didn't have challenges like everyone, that voice that we all have comes back, right? So often. And it is like, oh, you're sure you kind of, this happened and, you can't run from the fact that you fell asleep.

Trust me, I had to really combat my own mind, But the one thing I learned is that when I disallowed that voice, it was so persistent. So I actually sat with it and say, okay, explain to, let's write this out. Why do you believe that? And then I wrote down all of my fears and everything that I thought was the evidence that was true.

and I looked at it and it was only when I looked at it from this place of. Neutrality. Like I, got neutral about it. did I see where I was limiting what it could be. And I started to see what it could become. so I started challenging the narrative. Well, what if I was a loving mother that day?

What would be different? What would I say if I look at it from that lens, And that's when I really started to understand what Theresa said in her letter, that I was a good mother the day before and I was a good mother that day. That's when it really started to shift for me.

I really struggled with that for so long, but the minute I started to see myself with more compassion and empathy, my world and mindset and the quality of my days changed dramatically. Thank you so much for sharing your stories.

Your stories. There's more than one. Yeah. I mean, there's many, and there's so many that resonate with me. The mom who lost my babies at 32 weeks. And it's still, you know, that guilt and that shame and that blame, and then that feeling afterwards that you really aren't allowed. 

You don't deserve to have that happiness. But I so agree with what you say because that's when it all changed for me too, is when I decided it was okay to talk to myself a little better. It was okay for me to release that guilt. It was okay for me. No, I couldn't change the outcome. But what if I wasn't to blame?

what if it wasn't all my fault? that's when it really changes everything because you can live and bring your children with you. You can bring that baby or your son. with you into your life and live a life that you love. I think it's really hard to allow that for yourself.

I think it's hard for everybody, especially in the first couple of years after the loss of our beloved children, because we're thrown into. A world that looks familiar but is completely different. We are no longer the same people, but the rest of the world is very much the same.

And they see you and they see the grief, but they don't understand the depth of the changes and your relationship to the world. How different it is now. everything for me was different. my friendships changed. my ability to feel safe in the world changed. I became fearful of many things like flying and, going to, places where there were large crowds, I just, feared everything.

I was afraid that I would make another mistake and that something might happen. I became very paranoid for a time. because that's what grief does. Grief will do a number on your mental, your mental health, your spiritual health, your physical health, your relationships. It, it just has a way of permeating everything that is obvious and everything that isn't obvious.

I started to write about my experiences and I published a book about 10 years ago called Lessons from Neverland. I was talking about my trauma journey and how I felt after all of this happened. when I published that book, I realized that.

I really wanted to talk to the woman who lost her little boy. At this point, I'm probably 10 to 15 years post accident and I wanted to write a different kind of book. I wanted to write the kind of book that would speak to the hearts of the mourners, like the letter that I received spoke to me, and so I decided that I was going to write this book, which is my love letter.

my fluency in this experience of grief and bereavement and speak from that language and to speak to people, parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, just everyone about what it is like for a person who is going through this kind of experience and also speaking to them directly. So this book is really meant to be a support and a guide, which is why I wrote creating a life bigger than Grief, because that is a truth, and, it's true.

it is possible, but we have to. Be willing to talk about what that journey looks like. And so I did, and trust me, I tried everything. I tried traditional things. I tried non-traditional things. I spoke to psychics, pastors reverends and bishops. I sought out, different practitioners in, the Healers Blueprint in Tam Pendleton, which is all about cellular release and energy clearing.

then I went on to study heart-centered Life, coaching because I really wanted to understand how to emotionally support and connect people back into their heart space, which I think is a beautiful practice because it's such a compassionate and loving place and a center of endless possibility.

I took all of these different, Experiences and study, and I created this book that I believe is meant to serve a person where they are. I talk about my journey, what I learned during that phase of my grieving process. And then I talk about the practices that really did make a difference for me because I wanted to give the reader my audience, a pathway of forward momentum, bringing their loved one with them without the fear of feeling like they're betraying their loved one by moving forward.

that is a fear. I have learned that the greatest gift I have given myself is this ability to bring Drew with me into my present. He is definitely a part of my past. my journey, and my present and will be a part of my future because I keep him alive in so many different ways.

I think we need examples of people who do that so that people who struggle with this idea that moving forward is a betrayal, can see that. it's actually a testament of the love that you shared.

I think grief. At least for me has become this calling forward of my consciousness to recognize the presence of love that will never leave. I reach for my son differently. I feel him differently, but I feel him. I feel the connection of his love, and that is how I was able to radically shift my relationship with his loss and the loss of my other little boy Peter.

I don't often talk about him. I talk a lot about Drew, but I'm happy to share that. With your audience today? Because it's an important part of my story. that's when I really, had to get my heart back in alignment with my faith because I promise you, my faith was struggling at this point.

I felt like God was punishing me. I felt like if this is what you have in store for me, no thank you. I'm checking out, I distanced myself from God for a long time, and at some point I just knew that I had to surrender this whole experience and allow for this transformative, 

These transformative thoughts and ideas to really become the embodiment of who I am. took time because knowledge is one thing. Embodiment is something quite different. we know a lot of things, but how often do we actually put the intentional time and discipline into the creation of those ideals?

I think we do sometimes when we're faced with situations, but when life becomes normalized even after the loss of Drew, not that life was. Like it was before, but there was a certain amount of predictability things that I could expect.

And inside of my numbness, I was going through the motions. This is where I got intentional about my, my life and the path that I wanted my life to take. I recognized that what I was, what I was doing is I was like a spinning top, 

A lot of movement, but staying in one place, there was so much going on. I knew I needed to move in a direction towards what I wanted. I had to get really clear about what that was. I wanted a life of happiness. I wanted a life of joy. I wanted a life of fulfillment.

I wanted a life where I felt worthy, I felt safe. I felt worthy of being a mother worthy of, Being happy, which those things were a challenge for a time, but eventually, not only did I believe it, it started to become my truth and my experience. as that happened, more and more people were noticing.

that's when I would get asked this question, how are you? how did you do this? You seem so much better. that was the reason and the, inspiration for my latest book, dear Drew, creating a Life Bigger Than Grief. it's all of that. It's all of the how, the trial and error and the, the, the, the different stages of my journey with brief.

All in one place. I think what Drew would've wanted for you. I think that's the piece too, that sometimes we miss. Mm-hmm. Is that your child wants you to be happy, wants you to live the life with joy. what a better way to honor them.

I really agree with you. Drew had this voracious energy, like he loved life. He loved living the, you know, we had the role that he couldn't get out of bed before the sun was up because he woke up every day. So ready to live to engage this world. to play and to climb trees and, to break all of the rules, you know, yeah.

He just loved life. he was also so curious about this world. I remember thinking, I wrote him a letter every day for the first year after he was gone. I went back and read those letters I could tell that when I was imagining what his world was like, for me, I had a period of magical thinking where he wasn't necessarily.

You know, deceased, he was just in a place like Peter Pan. He was a little boy that would never grow up. He was a neverland, but he was off having these adventures and wreaking havoc, like he was here and he was just having fun and jumping from cloud to cloud. that's how I imagined him. So, I drew so much. Insight from those letters. the inspiration of this idea of him continuing to live on in this active kind of way, became the inspiration for me to reengage life with that same sort of intention and childlike curiosity. I wanted to see, instead of like, this will never be easy for me, I started to say things like, what if it could be, what if I could wake up and every day started off with absolute joy instead of absolute dread?

what would that life be like? And it took time, but I found that, carving out 15 minutes in the morning for me, where I intentionally set my mindset All of the things I wanted to experience. I wanted to experience joy that day. So I aligned myself with activities and thinking. I also would carry a picture of Drew in one of his brightest smiles or his messy hands and dirty face after, eating chocolate, brownies or whatever.

I would bring something with me that would connect me to a moment where I just remember thinking, life doesn't get better than this. Like this is a beautiful moment. This is something I wanna hold onto. And I let myself build upon that, and that was a huge help for me.

That, and then I would accompany that with affirmations. Like, the pain that I feel is the mirror reflection of the depth of my love. And it just helped me reframe. the feelings of pain and sadness because they are still gonna be there, right? It allowed me to have this space where other things could also be true.

I could hold two truths at once. That joy and sorrow can coexist. That loss and love can still coexist while I move forward in a loving way. Bringing my memories, bringing my love, and bringing his life forward with me. That felt right. it gave me a sense of, yes, I can lean into that.

I want more of that in my life. But if I ever got lazy and didn't take that time, I would struggle. I knew this had to become a practice, a form of honoring his life and my continuation in a way that brought us together in the alignment of that, that desire to live with this sense of emotional freedom and a, a sense of peace and wholeness again.

And is that how you were able to mend your relationship and become the parent you wanted to be to your other children Yes. my son Devin was my reason for living for a long time.

when I couldn't love myself enough to fully get there. I loved Devin so much that I tried even harder, Devin was my reason for wanting to continue and keep fighting through this. My marriage, we grieved so differently. It was a really hard journey for us I had big emotions, a lot of feelings, a lot of tears, a lot of need for the world to stop and give me a minute. And my husband went into this, I gotta work. I got yard. he just started finding all these projects and all these reasons to be here but not be here.

We struggled. were there times that it brought us closer together? Yes. But were there times that it, posed a challenge for us. Absolutely. we hung in there for several years. But ultimately we weren't able to Save the marriage.

what we have done is we've retained all of the parts of us that were working. And let go of the parts that weren't so we could both flourish and have, the peace we both wanted. I'll be honest with you, we've never been better friends than now.

We've been divorced for several years. But he is one of my dearest friends, and we co-parent beautifully. our children are no longer little. They're, 29 and 21. this journey with grief and bereavement and loss has taken me down so many different roads.

But the one thing that I know for sure is that my ability to look into what looked like the absolute worst situations and find the expansive, possibility is one of my greatest assets, I can look at a situation and not just see the problem. I can see how, if I know what I want, if I know I don't wanna be at odds with my husband, I don't wanna be fighting and going back and forth to court and making my life, his life and our children's life miserable, well then what?

What does that look like and who do I need to become in order to facilitate that? I can't control whether or not he participates, you know? Yeah. But thankfully, we both made that decision and we were able to uncouple from each other and allow our marriage to come to a peaceful, dissolution.

thank God for that because it's really given us this opportunity to go back and talk about Drew something that we never did. We talk about him now differently. we talk with more compassion for where each other was during that time. it's really been another unexpected source of, connection and friendship, 

Also deep understanding and I dare say, more tenderness for each other and forgiveness for each other because it was a tough time. It was tough, yeah. That it is a, it is a very common struggle, I think, in lot Absolutely. Of parents and, and it's, it's tough to survive it. What I love the most about your story is the inspiration and strength you drew from a stranger's words just because she had been there.

Yeah. And what if you and I, I know this is why I do what I do and why you're doing what you do, But what if we could be that for someone else? I mean, it's changed your life in such A profound way that I think that's what's so inspirational. have you ever found Theresa.

No, I've never, The letter was to the mother of Drew Gallimore. there was no return address, and she just signed her name. Theresa, there was not, there was not like Theresa. No wait Smith. No, just wait. France. Yeah. And I think, I think it was probably her way of letting me know that she cared, but I also understand that it's hard for people sometimes to, be in the presence of somebody else's pain because you worry that they might lean on you too much, or that you don't have all the answers and you don't want to, make things more difficult.

Whatever her reason was. I am so grateful that she wrote the letter because her words 25 years later are still words that I refer back to. It's a moment of clarity and of such poignancy in my life that I have never forgotten it, and it has become the driving force and the thesis of so much of what I truly believe and what I write about, which is that we have the power of choice and what grief and loss can mean to us, and that the rule book and the societal narratives and norms can be thrown out the window 

Yes. we need to start understanding that while no one wants to sit down and say, let's talk about loss. Let's talk about grief today. Let's talk. About bereavement. You know, it's like the, it's like the one person at the party that nobody wants to sit next to, and I have learned that, you know, when you sit next to the person at the party that nobody really wants to talk to, they're some of the most interesting and fascinating people.

They just do things differently and outside of the norm, which challenge other people's. Mm-hmm. You know? ability to be confronted with the differences. That comfortable, yeah. They're just uncomfortable. It makes people very uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. I can't tell you how many times someone has said to me, aren't you tired writing about this?

I actually was gonna say what? Yeah. Like, what advice do you have for someone who, who is trying to keep their memory of their child alive? Their baby. Mm-hmm. And really is afraid to, because they're getting looked at like, poor thing. Aren't you past that by now?

You know what I say? Lean in double, double time. you do not have to apologize or ask for permission to honor and love your child in a way that is right and appropriate for you. I love big, and so my big love is coming with me. My love for my son, it's impossible to leave behind so I don't apologize.

here's what I've learned. There are a lot of people that will be there with you until you decide to do something that is really your own path. you've gotta be careful with who you surround yourself with. it might be difficult 'cause sometimes the criticism might come from family.

I know for me, that's been the case. I've had every criticism under the stars. at this point I've silenced the critics because what I am doing is making a positive difference. It is helping serve a community of people that need a voice, that need for someone to just boldly say, we have the right to talk about our children for as long as we want to talk about our children.

And that empty chair at the table can be filled with conversation and memory and expression and new tradition, People, Need to understand that you do have the power of choice and you do get to honor your children or your loved one. however it feels right for you.

Without the need for approval. You might want the approval. Yes, there's a part that wants you, but it's approval or even just what others consider to be normal. I quit. I listen. I am not normal. I've given up the whole, like my normal, I am, a unique person in that I make very intentional decisions about what I allowed to become my truth and who I allowed to be a part of my world because I am very intentional about the kind of life and the kind of woman and the kind of example and legacy that I want my life to ultimately have.

I do things with a lot more independence and freedom, but with a lot more compassion too for a community of people they need to not only be seen and heard, but to understand that someone else really can relate. They really can understand, maybe not everything, but enough for you to recognize that this is a shared experience and that we are a community if we allow ourselves to not stay in isolation, but to come together and bring our vulnerability, bring our sadness, and then find ways to.

Support each other as we move forward. And I think that's very important. For me, I needed it to be more than just the pains, you know, the story of the separation or the loss. I needed to be a part of a community that understood that this happened. But instead of putting an exclamation point or a period creating a comet and then looking at what life could become or how we could move forward, and what were those ideas and what were those avenues and what helped them, that's what I needed.

And so I just found that my friend group changed and my community changed. And the people who thought that I was losing my mind or trying to, stay stuck in the past, I had to let them think that I had to become okay with the discomfort of knowing that they didn't agree or had criticisms of me and my decisions.

But at this particular point, because it's now been probably 15 years. I've silenced those critics I dare say they've become some of my greatest supporters because they have seen me go through it all firsthand. there's no question that I live a vibrant and fulfilled life. I'm not stuck in the past.

I just refuse to let Drew remain in my past. Yes. 'cause he's coming with you. He's coming with me. Right. You're bringing him with you absolutely everywhere. And that's what I think is so beautiful about what you can offer is, you know, I've been here before. You're, you're the theresa of, your followers, your people that are listening to you.

And we get the gift of social media and being more visible now than what we had, because I remember that too. I remember clinging to everybody who would come forward and share their story because I had no idea. A lot of 'em, it was so shocking to me that, these women had lost their children and I never knew.

And I just remember clinging to that and wanting to know how did they, how did they do it? How did they ever become okay again? we didn't have any outlets or social media where we do now. So it's such a great thing that we get to use these platforms this my ex Drew's accident happened in May of 2000, so, you know, so much has changed 

The accessibility and the opportunities to come together to connect remotely, but still be in the same space. it's truly a remarkable platform and opportunity. it's my hope and my desire that everybody that is listening today, that they, that they seek out those communities and they seek out those voices of hope and inspiration.

but I also hope that when they do that, they come with the realization and the understanding that this is a choice and it requires action. It requires sitting with yourself and really getting to the heart of all of the narratives, to unlock and unleash this expansive relationship with grief.

Align with what I know is true, that life is fragile and love is everlasting, and love will always outlive life. And so it is our calling to love boldly, to love big, to love profoundly and completely, because that is what will carry us forward into these moments when separation is inevitable. if love has a shadow side, it is grief.

it is the price we pay for some of the greatest experiences that we'll ever have. none of us is guaranteed, any number of days. I think it's really important to understand that the quality of your thinking, your intentions and your ability to take action towards the directions that you want your life to progress toward is all part of this.

Grief is Like I said earlier, it's the last thing people wanna talk about, but when you really start to listen to grief and allow it to become a teacher and not a punishment, it has such expansive possibilities it creates the kind of presence that's so important when you can be fully present in the moments of your life, whether they've been, mundane and you're just sitting in nature.

Or if you're surrounded by all of your friends and family and loved ones, your presence is so different. When you understand how, fleeting life can be, you show up differently. You show up with so much more intention. You show up with a heart that wants to receive and give, 

And to be in peace with each other and create these moments where you can share, have these shared experiences that will become treasured memories. Yeah, I think all of that is Beautiful, information and wisdom, and it has created a much, the quality of my life is radically different because of my journey with grief, not despite it, but because of it, because I have had these experiences.

I am the woman that I am very proud to. I'm very proud of myself at this particular stage. I've done a lot of healing and work, to really get to a place of inner peace. I am a peaceful woman. I don't wake up every day and feel the weight of my loss. I wake up every day with an enthusiasm for living and a deep appreciation and gratitude for my sons the relationships and friendships that I have and the work that I do, I get excited about waking up and what's in front of me. I don't dread it. I used to, and just that little phrase is such a huge statement when you start off with self-loathing and self hatred, and you blame yourself for an unthinkable accident, to arrive at this place.

For me, it is a miracle. Remarkable. And we are given the gift of perspective. And that suffering is optional. Absolutely. I think the saying is pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. And I believe that I think it has everything to do with our willingness to expand our understanding of what pain is really meant to serve in our lives.

It's not just meant to be punishment, it is meant to be an invitation into a more expansive or a deeper understanding of who we are. I understand that. There's probably a listener that's out there that says, I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't do anything to invite this. I understand that it's still an opportunity for you to make decisions about how you will choose to see the world, how you'll choose to operate and solve the world.

we have to maintain this idea that no matter what our circumstances, there are possibilities available to us. It's just how we reach for them. that's a big part of what I talk about in my book. I love it. tell us where we can get the book, where we can find out more about you and the, the work you're doing.

Sure. you can find the book at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all the major books, sellers, but also you can find the link, in my social, social media on Instagram and Facebook. But I have a website with a ton of free resources for people navigating loss. I spend a lot of time, putting up information about water safety education.

I am a water safety educator, and I have tons of free resources and ideas about how to have conversations with young children because they are the most at risk demographic. inside of that, little boys under the age of four are the highest. I spend time talking about water safety education so that parents can have those conversations and make their children safer around water.

I also have tons of resources available to people that need support, that wanna feel seen, heard, held, and, inspired to find a direction to move forward with their loved one and with the love that they have for their departed in a way that honors them, but also allows for them and their families to move forward in a healthy, empowered, and loving way.

I love that. Thank you so much. I'll link everything in the show notes, my website, if I didn't mention it, is melissa hall.com. Okay. And socials, are you? Yes. Melissa Hall. Okay. Great. thank you so much for being here and sharing your story and for being so inspirational.

I appreciate you having me on the show today, Jennifer. I hope that we can continue this conversation and normalize, creating conversations around this topic thank you for the opportunity. Thank you.